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Monaco Blue

84A GT/E Hatch Anthracite

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Just noticed that this is still for sale almost 9 months on:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C752150

It has a fresh MOT with the following advisories:

  • Offside Rear Seat belt cut but webbing not significantly weakened (5.2.2a)
  • Steering rack gaiter deteriorated both (2.2.D.2d)
  • Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
  • Offside Front Vehicle structure has slight corrosion (6.1.A.1)
  • Nearside Front Vehicle structure has slight corrosion outrigger (6.1.B.2)
  • Fuel Pipe/s corroded ()
  • various brakes grabbing slightly

 

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Damn good spot here Monaco Blue, makes me wonder why anyone would buy this when for half the price they could buy an unusable smashed up Manta  (ok sorry for sarcasm)

But to me that previous comment puts a damn serious perspective on things. getting bored of seeing silly prices for what really is shit, this car isn't (or maybe isn't) and possibly could warrant a correct price

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Just my 2 Penneth but it seems Manta prices are starting to catch up with the Frods. The Manta that was mangled was a really nice car pre crash and only the buyer knows what they paid but if I had the know how I'd loved to have saved it. And thanks to guys like Kev and his brother (if it was them this time) more Mantas get saved that would previously have been ravaged for bits.

Get your frustration on the prices but for instance my project initially cost me 1250 with delivery  but since I have spent 2 grand buying the rest of the bits, if I was to sell now I'd hope to get a lot of that back. I'm not but I can see where some pricing ideas come from.

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16 hours ago, opel2000 said:

Damn good spot here Monaco Blue, makes me wonder why anyone would buy this when for half the price they could buy an unusable smashed up Manta  (ok sorry for sarcasm)

But to me that previous comment puts a damn serious perspective on things. getting bored of seeing silly prices for what really is shit, this car isn't (or maybe isn't) and possibly could warrant a correct price

Your comments re that written-off Exclusive are probably spot-on. I doubt there are many Manta enthusiasts out there that can afford to have cars such as this one brought up to scratch unless they have the skills & facilities to do it themselves. 

....and then you have Gordo up in East Kilbride trying to sell his late model E Plate GTE hatch in Platinum for £4500 without success so far. One does wonder. Having spent the last 18 months looking at Manta's and selling prices, this one is relatively speaking, a bargain!

As you know, the Lancashire Opel production line (Kevin/Andy/Dan & Carl) is in full swing & keeps knocking out cars at affordable prices. 

15 hours ago, TheRealExile said:

Just my 2 Penneth but it seems Manta prices are starting to catch up with the Frods. The Manta that was mangled was a really nice car pre crash and only the buyer knows what they paid but if I had the know how I'd loved to have saved it. And thanks to guys like Kev and his brother (if it was them this time) more Mantas get saved that would previously have been ravaged for bits.

Get your frustration on the prices but for instance my project initially cost me 1250 with delivery  but since I have spent 2 grand buying the rest of the bits, if I was to sell now I'd hope to get a lot of that back. I'm not but I can see where some pricing ideas come from.

A couple of Classic Car websites that appear to have a fairly representative selection of cars. 

http://www.trinitycarsolutions.co.uk/?page_id=191

https://www.kgfclassiccars.co.uk/showroom.php  Note the two Cavalier Coupe/Sporthatches for sale. Both very similar looking condition wise and low miles yet one is double the price of the other (or was) before dropping back to £10K. Apparently the Coupe was available for around £5000 earlier this year.

As for Fords, note the Escort 1300E up for £20K. A lovely car, but £20K!! Add a Mexico or RS badge to the back of it and that price doubles!

Then there's this one:  http://borderreivers.co/portfolio/opal-manta-berlinetta-1-8s/  £15K no less!  It does look mint and it might be worth that to a collector or speculator, but this was up for grabs on here earlier this year for circa £4500 and there wasn't a sniff apparently! It was later sold and for sale in a classic dealer in West Sussex for £6000 if I recall correctly (and sold in days) and now it's reappeared for £10 more!

The problem with rising prices is, it's a Catch 22 scenario. There comes a point (say £10-15K) when the average Manta fan will no longer be able to afford to buy the car of their desires and most will end up being bought and stored away in collections or in the hands of speculators (like Fords) hoping to make a profit in due course. The Berlinetta above illustrates that perfectly.

Edited by Monaco Blue

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Hi, I have been interested in this car, but reading the MOT history it seems to have been a failure more often than not. It is being listed as restored, but there is talk above of it being written off. If this is the case, that would affect its value right and also would need careful examination and I am not sure I would be able to do this. Is there anyone nearby who has looked at it already? Or knows something more about the car. I have now asked the owner for more information. Jeff

 

Jeff

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Jeff the Manta in question that's been for sale for a while at £6500 has not been written off in the past as far as i know.

There is a simple thing going on with Manta prices at he moment & it is caused by supply & demand, most of the Mantas that currently come on the market are hatches meaning there is a choice for the buying public this then keeps the prices much lower than the equivalent coupe model which come onto the market infrequently now.

The other thing about prices is achievability , the ceiling price for a GTE hatch is probably around £7000 & to achieve that price it would have to be perfect almost concours. The hatch in question looks to be generally good from the pics & description but its likely top selling price is circa £5000, so if the seller wants a sale he should be advertising it for £4995 but maybe he's not looking for a quick sale.

The GTE hatch for sale in Scotland at £4500 looks a very fair price but location in the UK affects its saleability. 

This time of year its a buyers market as demand for classic cars is lower, i think a lot of sellers set there initial asking price to high & when the car hangs around due to this then buyers start asking "whats wrong with it." Its the same when you sell a house, the area will have a price ceiling & if you ask too much then start knocking chunks off when it doesn't sell the people think there is a problem.

There will be two very fairly priced Manta Hatches coming up for sale in the Bristol area soon, a black Berlinetta Hatch & a Gold auto GTE hatch both currently being restored before going on sale for anyone who wants to join the Manta owning fraternity :thumbup 

5a18599beb0c9_BlackManta.thumb.jpg.3f8e88d1bd9202977e93f4d0cd717d18.jpg5a18593377cf4_GoldManta.thumb.jpg.e6175ecc84ef46cc46d5d029474299a8.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rapierdave

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Thanks Dave, This is so helpful. Is there anyone in the club that does appraisals?

I'm not into gold much, but I like the Berlinetta. Is the 1.8 better or worse than the 2.0. If it is a cam belt, probably quieter.

I will really bear in mind what you say about price.

 

Thanks for you kindly advice Jeff

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Where abouts in the UK are you based Jeff ?

There are lots of us Manta nuts based all around the UK & i'm sure someone local to you could give you some advice or possibly go with you to look at a car.

I have driven or own various Mantas/Asconas with 1.6 & 1.9/2.0 engines. The Berlinetta Hatch is the first 1.8 i have owned & i was pleasantly surprised when i drove it as it revs very freely & feels as quick as a 2.0 litre carbed engine although the injected engine will be slightly quicker.

The 1.8 is a more modern engine than the 2.0 litre CIH engine & does have a cam belt but luckily the engine is non interference so no damaged valves if the belt was to fail.

Here is a pic of the 1.8 engine in the Berlinetta Hatch

IMG_20171021_123638764.thumb.jpg.d5612466633bb4a4949c107f7b8f91a6.jpg

 

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2 hours ago, Sloppy said:

Hi I live in Bury St Edmunds and the car is in Cambridge. Jeff

Almost next door to you then. Would be worth a visit to take a look and suss it out. I get the impression from the ad (given the description) that the seller is probably not Manta savvy. As Rapierdave says, it does look nice in the photos. 

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Hi Dave,

 

I will go and have a gander tomorrow. I have said that if it looks ok I will bring a specialist to appraise it following that. I rushed in and bought another classic a while ago and than realised a lot of the panels were totally wrong and I am either going to have to part with it as a restoration or do it myself. It is a triumph 2000 Mk1 estate and they are hens teeth, so as I have to spend a bit on it if I keep it, if I take on another classic, it has to be pretty damn good as I will need to have a classic whilst the other  is being done up. Are the indicators on the left in Mantas?

Jeff

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This is apparently the restoration work it has had:

Battery

Petrol

Metal pipes

Wing

Filler

Metal

Radiator

Undercoat

Rubber brake pipes

5 Tyrew

Brake Cables

Fibreglass

Petrol control Valve

Wheel centre cap

Petrol Pump and rubbers

Oil and filter

Non return valve

Brakepads

Fog lamp

Black stonechip

MOT

Masking tape

Water sensor

Boot lid gas struts.

 

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Nice car a Triumph 2000 estate especially in MK1 form.

When you look at the Manta pay particular attention to the sill area just in front of the rear wheels they are covered by the side skirts on the car you will be viewing but they are a common rot area on Mantas. Also Mantas tend to leak water into the car from underneath the washer bottle area & underneath the battery, this then leads to wet carpets/soundproofing & the front floor pans rot from the inside out.

You can look under a car & it can look ok but can be quietly rusting from the inside out.

The fuel tanks on the Hatch are slung under the car & tend to rot badly, the breather pipes also perish. Replacement hatch tanks for GTE's are like rocking horse poo but you can get the original tank restored.

The chassis legs where the front suspension bolts on sometimes called the "swan necks" due to their shape tend to rust through from the inside out. On the sill check where the sill joins the back wing as where the two layers of steel overlap they "blow" here. The A posts rot where the front wings bolt on due to it being a road muck trap see pics of rust areas to check.

5a196e3784cc0_Manta2.thumb.jpg.91973f205a10d224a2195200612bb20b.jpg5a196eba07b25_Manta8.thumb.jpg.9384e1e88f55e01b975be050573a33af.jpg5a196f1f98ed2_Manta4.thumb.jpg.cc893c6d4926cc3e6a5f136d27009c9f.jpg

IMG_20171010_202500045.thumb.jpg.2dfcb5a6e672d32b3a5d7c4c93a61b55.jpg

5a196f59e46c5_Manta16.thumb.jpg.323a4e3f21b3819ad1b97c672bfb6493.jpg

The last pic shows the filler found on previous "bodged" restoration repairs, it is always best if possible to buy a car that has a photographic record of the Resto carried out or can talk to previous owners.

One good point about the car your going to view is that it is a non sunroof model as Mantas tend to rust around the factory fitted sunroof if fitted.

In my opinion based on the few pics that are available if the car has no significant rust, the paintwork is good & there are no nasty noises from the engine or transmission then it should sell for around £4500 -£5000 at this time of the year. If it was better presented e.g. the headlamp wipers were not missing on one side & it was sold in the spring or summer then it could achieve £5500.

You need to be careful on this one Jeff it could be a good car which if you can buy for under £5000 you should get your money back if you decided to sell later.

But you need to check carefully that any freshly applied underseal is not covering bodged repairs or rust.

 

 

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This is very helpful. Thanks so much dave. I am a bit worried filler and fibreglass are mentioned in the list. 

 

If these places look hopeful, I will get some pictures with my phone, but also, if you do know anyone local who like you, knows what they are doing,  I would be even more confident. I don't want to buy something unless it is really good, as I don't have the time, skills, money or equipment to shell out a couple of grand to sort any oversights I have made. It could be costly, so stage one's to go and check the points you have raised and then if I am happy, try to get an appraisal by someone sensible, even if they would like to be paid for that. It could really be money well spent. I think I will take a decent magnet.That bodge, may be difficult to find on inspection with wing on?

 

Jeff

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Simon P on here runs Suffolk County Mantas, and is based near Bury St Edmunds, so it might be worth trying him for some advice.

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There is no one that i know who is "local" to Cambridge, the nearest Manta "experts" who i know live nearest to Cambridge are Ian Virco who lives near Milton Keynes ,Steve Hancock who lives near Spalding Lincs & Simon Peckham who is based near Bury St Edmunds.

If welded repairs to sills etc are carried out correctly there will always be a thin amount of filler needed to smooth off before priming & painting.

As you don't have the skills or equipment to carry out bodywork yourself then be prepared to walk away if you are unsure, however it could be a good car especially if any body work repairs that have been carried out have been done correctly.

Has the seller had the work done or was it a previous owner ? 

I still believe that at £6500 that car is £1500 overpriced but thats only my opinion based on my limited knowledge of the car & my more experienced knowledge of what Manta Hatches generally fetch.

The most recent GTE hatch to sell was last month at a dealer, it was a good car that had some not to pretty welded repairs underneath out of site & it sold for £4795, which imo was good value especially when you consider that dealer prices are higher than private sales.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Opel-Manta-GTE-1983-NOW-SOLD-/263297961455?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

If you decide to not go ahead with buying the GTE hatch then consider the Berlinetta Hatch i will have up for sale soon, it goes in for painting on Monday & should be back in a week & will be ready for sale early December, but i wasn't going to put it up for sale until Spring or Summer next year to maximise the chance of covering the investment made & making a small profit. Would be looking for £4000 currently, if that fits in your budget.

Edited by Rapierdave

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7 hours ago, Sloppy said:

Hi Dave,

 

I will go and have a gander tomorrow. I have said that if it looks ok I will bring a specialist to appraise it following that. I rushed in and bought another classic a while ago and than realised a lot of the panels were totally wrong and I am either going to have to part with it as a restoration or do it myself. It is a triumph 2000 Mk1 estate and they are hens teeth, so as I have to spend a bit on it if I keep it, if I take on another classic, it has to be pretty damn good as I will need to have a classic whilst the other  is being done up. Are the indicators on the left in Mantas?

Jeff

Good luck with the viewing tomorrow. Will be interesting to hear your thoughts on this one as it's been for sale most of this year.

If it's not to your liking, you could try this one:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C894222

There's a thread on here re the car too. Try searching for 'Platinum GTE'. It's a couple of £K less and is one of the last GTE Hatch's built in the desirable Platinum and only 2 owners from new. If I recall correctly, this car also came from Cambridge area albeit now resides in East Kilbride. 

Link added:  

 

Edited by Monaco Blue

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Hi Jeff

The Berlinetta sold to a guy called Declan in Northern Ireland. Didn't even advertise it as Declan emailed me after seeing it in the Projects thread.

I was pleased with the final results.

5a63ae470a411_MantaB.thumb.jpg.569ae14ff20d28fe3af9993198404c1b.jpg

 

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It looks lovely. 

 

I had an accident before Christmas so didn't manage to buy the other Manta.Jeff 

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A year on , and this is still for sale at £6500:  https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C752150

Was MOT'd back in October with the following advisories:

Mileage 52,691 miles

Expiry date 11 October 2018

Advisory notice item(s)

  • Offside Rear Seat belt cut but webbing not significantly weakened (5.2.2a)
  • Steering rack gaiter deteriorated both (2.2.D.2d)
  • Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
  • Offside Front Vehicle structure has slight corrosion (6.1.A.1)
  • Nearside Front Vehicle structure has slight corrosion outrigger (6.1.B.2)
  • Fuel Pipe/s corroded ()
  • various brakes grabbing slightly

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Epically wrong time of year to be selling. Im struggling just as much to shift my Rekord, to a point where I may have to start using it again. But like mentioned in previous posts, if mantas end up at Ford prices, its a catch 22 situation. Just like the price of parts is being steadily pushed up, those who have had the cars for decades will suffer when buying second hand parts to keep their pride and joy on the road... but those looking to sell will have the best outcome. Like Dave said, its £1500 too much as an extra grand would get you a nice coupe. They obviously arent in a rush to sell seeing as theyve not dropped the price at all.

 

And those Ricardo seats!!!! Priceless. :lol:

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10 minutes ago, Sutty2006 said:

And those Ricardo seats!!!! Priceless. :lol:

Indeed! I rather like this bit:  ''Open Manta Berlinetta GTI. This is a special edition of the Opel Manta range'

  • Haha 1

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