JohnClayton Posted April 2, 2013 Author Share Posted April 2, 2013 (edited) Thanks hopefully this thread will bear fruit as well... Upgrading Manta brakes for rallying on a budget http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/33546-upgrading-manta-brakes-for-rallying-on-a-budget/ Edited April 11, 2013 by JohnClayton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Interested to see how you get on with this car, as I've taken the plunge with the V8 Manta that I also intend to take rallying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 Is your Manta a white rally/drift car powered by a Rover V8 (recently advertised on eBay in Scotland)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Yes, that's the one. Down from Glasgow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted April 11, 2013 Author Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) What LSDs will fit in a Manta? http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/32565-what-lsds-will-fit-in-a-manta/ Edited April 11, 2013 by JohnClayton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 Spotted an excellent blog here which covers a huge and long-running project build... 1988 Manta Coupe,400 kit, YB engine, EPS, 13/0 http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=print&thread=74470 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted April 28, 2013 Author Share Posted April 28, 2013 [From RuttheNut] Bit more reference info, about Manta 400, if of interest http://www.opel400club.de/motorsport/gruppe4hb.html http://www.cg-racing.de/homologationsblatt/A400Gr4Anl.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymanc Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Spotted an excellent blog here which covers a huge and long-running project build... 1988 Manta Coupe,400 kit, YB engine, EPS, 13/0 http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=print&thread=74470 kev is a member on here http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/30404-manta-400-r-cosworth-update-jan-2013/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 kev is a member on here http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/30404-manta-400-r-cosworth-update-jan-2013/ Had read that before - amazing amount of great work going into various of the projects on there. Seriously impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 I offered Nick a brake bias lever, but he said that he doesn't see any point in them on RWD cars. Still looking at the options to upgrade the brakes. I'm selling the standard calipers & discs if anyone needs any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I offered Nick a brake bias lever, but he said that he doesn't see any point in them on RWD cars. Still looking at the options to upgrade the brakes. I'm selling the standard calipers & discs if anyone needs any. Having adjustable bias can certainly be useful on RWD cars, but only really once you start playing with the brake setup. Being able to change front/rear bias between wet and dry conditions, or if you want a 'looser' back end under braking, bias can give control over what end locks first. I can see that left-foot braking is of much less use on RWD cars, unless you have a sequential gearbox or a turbo engine. There are still uses for left-foot braking even so, such as to steady the car for a small yump, avoiding a 'confidence lift', or just to reduce time taken between pedals (no good if clutch is required), but not for setting up cornering attitude as for FWD cars. One time it is handy is to warm the brakes up, but that is much more straightforward! My car has wilwood brakes on the front (with vented discs of unknown origin). It also has a remote servo, which has strangely been plumbed in to operate only on the front brakes, meaning the rears operate without servo assistance - so less pressure than on the original setup. There is also a hydraulic handbrake, which I don't find much use. I always felt that the Manta handbrake was effective enough on its drum brakes - hydraulic helps more with rear discs, imho. Oh, and just to add to the setup, there is a limiting valve in the rear line too. Somehow, I think a previous owner did not want the rear brakes to work :-o As for your brake options, I'd have thought that any of the options listed in this forum would make the most sense. No point trying something different if there are tried-and-tested solutions recommended. Depends on how much you want to spend, and how much work you want to put into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 Nick's yard in Southport, Merseyside has had a break in so we want to move the Manta on to another more secure place, preferably an enthusiast who would enjoy having the car on long-term loan to work on/drive/compete with (or perhaps a Youth Education Motor Project or a college). Anyone got any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 (edited) +++++++++++++++++++++++Work done to date+++++++++++++++++++++++ TBC by Nick Stafford ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Jobs still to do+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++TOP PRIORITY (ESSENTIAL WORK BEFORE NEXT EVENT)-Recharge & refit the battery -Refuel the car (& jerry cans) with valve additive -MoT -Rolling road check run -Test drive (including assessing serviceability of dampers) on road (and preferably also then on a motorsport event/track day -this will almost certainly highlight other areas that need attention!) -100% check over of car (unless already done by Nick) ++++++MEDIUM PRIORITY -Replace silencer which is way too noisy. Probably go for a Custom Chrome CHERRY BOMB "D.I.V.E.R". : http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/universal-exhaust-silencers/custom-chrome-racing-cherry-bomb-diver-silencer Fit oil pressure gauge? See if brakes can be made to work adequately. Try strip, clean, reassemble and road test. Then consider fitting trackday/rally pads (and possibly better discs). Then try upgrading the calipers and discs as detailed here: http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/33546-upgrading-manta-brakes-for-rallying-on-a-budget/ ++++++LOWER PRIORITY Get an MSA logbook on the car (I think it has both extinguishers so hopefully it just needs spill kit, mud flaps, in-date belts and window film). It might need the seats remounting for MSA Regs (N.B. the seats need to be quickly removeable to be swapped into other cars). Get tracking /suspension alignment checked Sumpguard? Paint up and fit the existing fibreglass bonnet Repaint the engine bay & engine Consider fitting an LSD -as detailed here: http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/32565-what-lsds-will-fit-in-a-manta/ Consider fitting a hydraulic handbrake/bias valve Edited November 7, 2013 by JohnClayton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 Just found some photos of the car online from people who attended Ormskirk MotorFest 2012: https://www.theimagefile.com/?Action=VF&id=9154431602&par_l=1&par_p=1 https://www.theimagefile.com/?Action=VF&id=9159106602&par_l=1&par_p=1 https://www.theimagefile.com/?Action=VF&id=9159017602&par_l=1&par_p=1 N.B. if the above links don't work then the photographer was George Langley - Keywords: 119 Nick Stafford Opel Manta GTE 1988, Ormskirk Motorfest 2012, 1 Star http://www.flickr.com/photos/35913984@N04/8016440518/ I'd now like to say a huge public thank you to Nick Stafford who masterminded the 'phoenix' restoration of this car (bringing it back from the dead when other people told me it was too far gone to save); a true gent, as well as a highly respected rally car engineer and driver. Outstanding work, Sir! Nick has now passed on this car to SKIDZ READING (SR) http://www.skidzreading.org.uk/, so I will also say thank you to Mr Simon Havers of SR who pulled off the operation to get the car down from Merseyside to Berkshire for his students, who will hopefully derive great benefit from learning/practicing engineering skills on the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) +++++++++++++++++++++++Work done to date+++++++++++++++++++++++ TBC by Nick Stafford ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Jobs still to do++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++TOP PRIORITY (ESSENTIAL WORK BEFORE NEXT EVENT) -Recharge & refit the battery -See if 4 pot front brake calipers can be made to fit under the existing wheels (possibly by hand-filing or even angle-grinding delicately a chamfer off the edge of the caliper to stop it fouling on inside of wheel) -Inventory of stuff in car & Service Level Agreement -Refuel the car (& jerry cans) with valve additive -MoT -Rolling road check run -Test drive (including assessing serviceability of dampers) on road (and preferably also then on a motorsport event/track day -this will almost certainly highlight other areas that need attention!) -100% check over of car (unless already done by Nick) ++++++MEDIUM PRIORITY -Replace silencer which is way too noisy. Probably go for a Custom Chrome CHERRY BOMB "D.I.V.E.R". : http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/universal-exhaust-silencers/custom-chrome-racing-cherry-bomb-diver-silencer Fit oil pressure gauge? See if brakes can be made to work adequately. Try strip, clean, reassemble and road test. Then consider fitting trackday/rally pads (and possibly better discs). Then try upgrading the calipers and discs as detailed here: http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/33546-upgrading-manta-brakes-for-rallying-on-a-budget/ ++++++LOWER PRIORITY Get an MSA logbook on the car (I think it has both extinguishers so hopefully it just needs spill kit, mud flaps, extinguisher & ignition pull cables, in-date belts and window film). It might need the seats remounting for MSA Regs (N.B. the seats need to be quickly removeable to be swapped into other cars, and are needed for the Tarmac Sierra rally car from 2014 onwards so other seats will be provided for the Manta. Get tracking /suspension alignment checked Fabricate or buy an alloy Sumpguard? Paint up and fit the existing fibreglass bonnet Repaint the engine bay & engine Tackle paint blistering e.g. on bonnet Consider fitting an LSD -as detailed here: http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/32565-what-lsds-will-fit-in-a-manta/ Consider fitting a hydraulic handbrake/bias valve Edited November 19, 2013 by JohnClayton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 +++++++++++++++++++++++Work done to date+++++++++++++++++++++++ TBC by Nick Stafford ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Jobs still to do+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++TOP PRIORITY (ESSENTIAL WORK BEFORE NEXT EVENT)-Recharge & refit the battery -Welding: both front chassis legs, inner& outer sills & also various patches that have only been welded on 3 sides (the welding needs to go all the way round for an MoT) -See if 4 pot front brake calipers can be made to fit under the existing wheels (possibly by hand-filing or even angle-grinding delicately a chamfer off the edge of the caliper to stop it fouling on inside of wheel) -Inventory of stuff in car & Service Level Agreement -Refuel the car (& jerry cans) with valve additive -MoT -Rolling road check run -Test drive (including assessing serviceability of dampers) on road (and preferably also then on a motorsport event/track day -this will almost certainly highlight other areas that need attention!) -100% check over of car (unless already done by Nick) ++++++MEDIUM PRIORITY -Replace silencer which is way too noisy. Probably go for a Custom Chrome CHERRY BOMB "D.I.V.E.R". : http://www.demon-twe...-diver-silencer Fit oil pressure gauge? See if brakes can be made to work adequately. Try strip, clean, reassemble and road test. Then consider fitting trackday/rally pads (and possibly better discs). Then try upgrading the calipers and discs as detailed here: http://forums.mantac...ng-on-a-budget/ ++++++LOWER PRIORITY Get an MSA logbook on the car (I think it has both extinguishers so hopefully it just needs spill kit, mud flaps, extinguisher & ignition pull cables, in-date belts and window film). It might need the seats remounting for MSA Regs (N.B. the seats need to be quickly removeable to be swapped into other cars, and are needed for the Tarmac Sierra rally car from 2014 onwards so other seats will be provided for the Manta. Get tracking /suspension alignment checked Fabricate or buy an alloy Sumpguard? Paint up and fit the existing fibreglass bonnet Repaint the engine bay & engine Tackle paint blistering e.g. on bonnet Consider fitting an LSD -as detailed here: http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/32565-what-lsds-will-fit-in-a-manta/ Consider fitting a hydraulic handbrake/bias valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Need some more parts for this car, if anyone can help... Sills (Inner & Outer) http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/35339-sills-inner-outer/ Front Chassis Legs http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/35338-front-chassis-legs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 Need to overhaul front & rear brakes (they look rusted up) Fuel leak Tidy up cables & fuel line Check it has a cable handbrake for MoT. Exhaust needs hanging properly. From rear seat backwards (i.e. the boot floor). £350 for each side of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Tim has visited the car and done an estimate of the welding it needs: Estimate Opel Manta Welding :- 2 front chassis legs Make good front inner wheel arches Off side & near side inner & outer sills Off side & near side rear outriggers & jacking points Labour 600.00 Welding Materials 60.00 Travel Expenses 40.00 ________ Total £700.00 John to supply Chassis legs, inner & Outer Sills, Outriggers & jacking points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Nice to have an idea of the cost involved in this sort of welding, though I'm sure that every car will have different levels of rot, in slightly different ways, so repairs could be cheaper or more expensive than this for others. All depends, I guess. Seems like quite a lot being fixed there, all common Manta failings - although most old cars have similar faults. Is the car on a hoist of some sort, or is this welding work being done using a jack and axle stands for access? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted January 21, 2014 Author Share Posted January 21, 2014 The car is on a 2 post electric lift in a workshop. The cost above is from a self-employed mobile mechanic who normally charges a very reasonable £10 per hour (although his prediction of 3 days work would equate to about £240, so maybe he has raised his rate). At garage rates it would be thousands! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rutthenut Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The car is on a 2 post electric lift in a workshop. The cost above is from a self-employed mobile mechanic who normally charges a very reasonable £10 per hour (although his prediction of 3 days work would equate to about £240, so maybe he has raised his rate). At garage rates it would be thousands! Certainly sounded like a very 'cost effective' price. And having the car on a lift is a near necessity. All the best with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantasrme Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I hope that quote includes removing the front subframe/ engine as that is the only way to properly fix chassis rails. Also with the list above for TO-DO before the next event, what sort of event are you planning? As i see getting an MSA logbook is on the Low Priority list, so obviously its not a a rally 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 I'm not planning any specific event for it yet -but it could be any clubman event from an Autosolo upwards (or a track day). Tim does mechanical work at £10 per hour but for welding he charges £25/hr, so here's a revised estimate with a bit more detail... Estimate - Opel Manta To Make Good : – Welding :-replace the 2 front chassis legs, Make good front inner wheel arches Replace the Off side & near side inner & outer sills, + weld up the off side & near side rear outriggers & jacking points Labour 600.00 [3x 8hour days @ £25/hr] Welding Materials 60.00 Travel Expenses 40.00 ________ Total £700.00 John Clayton to supply Chassis legs, inner & Outer Sills, Outriggers & jacking points. To Make Safe :- ie. Pass M.O.T. Patch front chassis legs, front inner wheel arches, off side & near side & outer sills, off side & near side rear outriggers & jacking points. Labour 400.00 [2x 8hour days @ £25/hr] Welding materials 100.00 Travel expenses 40.00 __________ Total 540.00 Will need £140.00 up front for materials & travel expenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnClayton Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) +++++++++++++++++++++++Work done to date+++++++++++++++++++++++ TBC by Nick Stafford ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Jobs still to do++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++TOP PRIORITY (ESSENTIAL WORK BEFORE NEXT EVENT) -Recharge & refit the battery -Inventory of stuff in car & Service Level Agreement -Welding: both front chassis legs, inner& outer sills & also various patches that have only been welded on 3 sides (the welding might need to go all the way round for an MoT) Fix Fuel leak Fix coolant pipe weep Tidy up cables & fuel line Check it has a cable handbrake (for MoT) Exhaust needs hanging properly. Source & fit an air filter -100% check over of car -Refuel the car (& jerry cans) with valve additive -MoT -Rolling road check run -Test drive (including assessing serviceability of dampers) on road (and preferably also then on a motorsport event/track day -this will almost certainly highlight other areas that need attention!) ++++++MEDIUM PRIORITY -Replace silencer which is way too noisy. Probably go for a Custom Chrome CHERRY BOMB "D.I.V.E.R". : http://www.demon-twe...-diver-silencer Fit oil pressure gauge? See if brakes can be made to work adequately. Try strip, clean, reassemble and road test (the front sliding calipers' pistons look rusted). Then consider fitting trackday/rally pads (and possibly better discs). Then try upgrading the calipers and discs as detailed here: http://forums.mantac...ng-on-a-budget/ Then see if the 4-pot front brake calipers can be made to fit under the existing wheels (possibly by hand-filing or even angle-grinding delicately a chamfer off the edge of the caliper to stop it fouling on inside of wheel) ++++++LOWER PRIORITY Get tracking /suspension alignment checked Fabricate or buy an alloy Sumpguard? Paint up and fit the existing fibreglass bonnet Repaint the engine bay & engine Tackle paint blistering e.g. on bonnet Consider fitting an LSD -as detailed here: http://forums.mantaclub.org/topic/32565-what-lsds-will-fit-in-a-manta/ Consider fitting a hydraulic handbrake/bias valve +++++++Work needed to get MSA logbook I think it has both extinguishers so hopefully it just needs: spill kit mud flaps in-date belts+ seats window film I believe that it already has the extinguisher & ignition 'external pull' cables fitted, but this needs to be checked. It might need the seats remounting but only an MSA scrutineer will be able to advise if this is necessary, in reality. N.B. seats and 4 point 3" rally harnesses will be provided for the Manta, but these will not be 'in date' for Stage Rallying. Edited February 3, 2014 by JohnClayton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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