upk Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Followed up on docs suggestion tonight, welded the frame back together, crude i know but needed to study the fit option. Well after doing that i have come to the conclusion that i dont think sliding on the roof skin can work. Infact i studied it for ages and i still can't work out how opel put it on in the first place. Anyhow the long and short of it is that i will remove the original roof as i planned to, cut from the centre of the roof outwards to expose the inner frame weld points, if i am still convinced it won't slide on then i will cut the roof rail edges as per Kev Abbotts method and make a butt joint from front to back. Don't panick folks if this makes no sense. I will photograph the operation so all will be clear. One day I will work out how opel fit the roof skin in the factory and doc, keep using that Jedi Mindtrick, its been useful bouncing ideas around with you, i really do appreciate that. As you say makes me think twice so i only cut once and get it right!! kev (aka upk) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 There is a seam in the gutter, that's how opel put it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 ah ah cheers doc Kevs method it is then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Can you email me some detailed pics of the removed assembled frame please (you have the address) as I have one to do and still not finished exploring doing it that way. Would give me a head start. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Abbott Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Hi Kev I did the roof on mine the same way but then when it came to putting the skin over the skeleton i couldn't open it enough to get it over, that's why i went for the datum line of the trim holes. It's a very tight fit when you get it on, so weld through primer on the seams before you 'ping' it into place is a good idea. You can then lead fill to get a factory finish Regards Kev Edited October 12, 2009 by Kevin Abbott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volksdevil Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I have so much respect for you lads doing things like this. Really wish i could weld... Anyway, top work that i find gobsmacking. Ill just sit back and enjoy the pictures. Neil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Abbott Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Just looking at the pics, the 'a ' post gives a false image... the 'top part of the 'a' post was ground down at the braze point and the 'new' roof skin spot welded to the 'a' post factory joggled point. ( hope that's clear ) Roof was then spot welded on front and rear screens and 'a' and 'c' posts the then but welded along the datum line in between the trim holes. Edited October 13, 2009 by Kevin Abbott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) kev ,big thanks for pics and info. doc i sent you email. for everybody else heres the cross section of the roof frame showing roof skin attached. The roof rail gutter as you can see on your car is very narrow and difficult to drill out the spot welds, so i will be going for kevs method. actual frame section ( incomplete cos i cut some off removing it). Edited October 14, 2009 by upk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 just to clarify i have added same pic but marked up where the cut will be made !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted October 16, 2009 Author Share Posted October 16, 2009 (edited) Well the escorts ready for the Cambrian Rally so Hirvonen better not get in our way! and the force was with me today, so as it was nice and sunny i decided to make the sunroof bigger on the manta so i cut out the old one!! leaving this then marked up all those cut points starting with the a pillar then the c pillar and the interim cuts to remove the skin:- drilled out the spot welds using spot weld cutter so as not to go through and was left with this:- and this have to wait a week or so now before i can remove the side portions and rain gutters. Edited February 12, 2012 by upk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Abbott Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Fantastic work Kev, great pics too. When it's all done we should put together a ' how to re-roof a manta' for the site as great info like this sometimes gets lost in great threads. Nice escort too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poddy Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 thats the same way i removed the roof on my manta . takes a bit of time but well worth it in the long run . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 Made a little bit of progress, not much as i have been busy elswhere and its also not a job to rush, one wrong cut and its goodnight vienna!! anyhow i removed all the old roof skin and exposed the original joints rear and front will need to fettle up a bit more before final fit. then i trimmed the new roof skin to fit rear and front as i said take your time with this bit. so now it looks like this needs fettling / fine adjustment and then the welding process will begin.....................yep still very nervous on this job cos it can still all go wrong !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 well i spent yesterday welding the roof in place:- including the frame sections inside have to say this is one very satisfying job, took my time, measured several times, cut once, and thought it through carefully. Thanks to all who gave advice / opinion, i can honestly say it was all well recieved. today decided to put strength into the floor before i change the chassis rails, dont want a jelly car!! 1st cut out the old floor in the rotten areas then test fit the panel and cut to size before welding in place ( still a bit to do but its getting late). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Abbott Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Quality work Kev, great pics too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzi Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 where did u got the floorpans mate and how much ? nice job by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) floor plans from here:- http://cgi.ebay.de/Bodenblech-Fussraum-bis-Sitz-rechts-Opel-Ascona-Manta-B_W0QQitemZ220508713694QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutoteile_Zubeh%C3%B6r?hash=item335757f2de sent payment by paypal and they arrived 2 days later!! really good fit too highly recommend these panels, not cheap but they save alot of time in fabrication. Edited November 15, 2009 by upk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Spotted and seam welded in? (the floor) Nice roof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted November 15, 2009 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 not seam welded as yet, but they will be. Gonna replace the chassis rails etc first and then seam welding will be home straight. also will need to dress the welds on the roof to finish that before lead loading the joint overlaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzi Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 cheers well worth it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 just to clarify i have added same pic but marked up where the cut will be made !! Really impressive work there! We've done it the 'Kev' method before, and it seems like the best bet.... Just a note on the drawing above.... The roofskin gutter seam is a continuous 'roller' weld (hence why you can't just drill out the welds) Keep up the good work, be interested to see it develop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Just a note on the drawing above.... The roofskin gutter seam is a continuous 'roller' weld The point above has been debated a lot.. and at last count it appeared although "knurled" along the top it is spotted, look on the underside of the gutter. I always thought it was continuous roller weld can't remember where the thread was......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 picked up the donar car the other day, very pleased as its a lovely example, very clean and low mileage with service history. actually its nearly to good to break! However the manta comes first and then i can sell on the bits i dont need to recover the cost of the car!! by the way i can concurr that the roof skin is knurl rolled and spot welded in one operation by opel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upk Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Project withdrawel symptons................major boredom!! not been so good for the past 2 weeks or so, got an inner ear infection that plays havoc with ones balance, even go dizzy if i get up too quick in a morning, all stemed from an infected tooth nerve. Well i have now had a root canal filling............doesnt hurt!! on even stronger antibiotics!! and feel alot better but still not well enough to work on the manta!! only good thing is the girlfriends brother decided to tax the omega and use up the rest of the MOT(before i break it) so its not sat on the drive...............room for something else i thinks!!!!????? anyway still bloody bored!!! ah well one more week in work then thats me done till 4th Jan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Power Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 (edited) The point above has been debated a lot.. and at last count it appeared although "knurled" along the top it is spotted, look on the underside of the gutter. I always thought it was continuous roller weld can't remember where the thread was......... Hmmm, interesting. In "the last manta" video you can see the roof welds being done, and its a roller welder being used.............maybe they changed the process at some poin, unless they pulse the current to the roller welder maybe? Certainly you can see the knurled electrodes sparking as they roll along the gutter Edited December 14, 2009 by Retro Power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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