Loobie Maher Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 To all members, Happy New Year to you all. The AGM will soon be upon us – Saturday 8th April, 1pm at The London Bridge Inn, Warrington, WA4 5BG. This is a nice looking venue with parking and only 5 minutes drive from junction 10 of the M56. This has specifically been picked with a view to being accessible to any of our Irish members who would be able to sail from Dublin into Liverpool. This is the time for you to have your say and put forward any proposals for changes within the club. At present the one proposal we have is: that the Forum should be open only to members to post for security reasons as well keeping the Forum a happy place without dispute and foul language. This has been proposed by Simon Peckham and seconded by Simon Chapman. Please let Louise Maher know of any other proposals by the 17th February. A proposal form can then be sent to all members. This allows members who are unable to attend the AGM to have their chance to vote. Reply via the OMOC forum Email msmaher24@hotmail.com Telephone 01926 641574 Mobile 07905255828 Please text only as I cannot answer my phone during the day. Facebook messages are great as long as they are sent via private messenger and not put on the public area as these will automatically be deleted and remain not valid. Do not vote at this point, this is for proposals only. A further voting form will be sent at a later date. Many thanks Louise Maher - Club Secretary and Treasurer 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robah Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Should be able to make this AGM as only 15 - 20 mins by Motorway from me . Posh end of Warrington 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Heres is the Google map of the AGM location - 4 hours ago, robah said: Posh end of Warrington When my father was young Warrington was a place that had to be cycled through when on a day out from Manchester to Liverpool, with the various ICI plants and Pilkingtons glass etc he reconded there was a different stench on every street ! Just realised that this is in the PUBLIC area, this should be in the Commitee News Section or Forthcoming Club Events Section, AGM bussiness is private and internal to the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealExile Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 13 hours ago, robah said: Should be able to make this AGM as only 15 - 20 mins by Motorway from me . Posh end of Warrington Me too, 40 mins for me.not a million miles away from my old stomping ground of Stockton Heath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robah Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 16 hours ago, MANTAMAN said: When my father was young Warrington was a place that had to be cycled through when on a day out from Manchester to Liverpool, with the various ICI plants and Pilkingtons glass etc he reconded there was a different stench on every street ! Just realised that this is in the PUBLIC area, this should be in the Commitee News Section or Forthcoming Club Events Section, AGM bussiness is private and internal to the club. I know the stenches as Pilkingtons is/was St Helens and ICI was/is Widnes and from a born and bred Warringtonian they stink anyhow lol 7 hours ago, TheRealExile said: Me too, 40 mins for me.not a million miles away from my old stomping ground of Stockton Heath. Yeah my Auntie lives in Stockton Heath and it use to be an interesting walk from the Town Centre. Past "The Wires" ground on Wilderspool then K&N shop/factory? then good old Greenall Whitley Brewery to cross over the ship canal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loobie Maher Posted December 31, 2016 Author Share Posted December 31, 2016 I put it in this area last year along with confirmed proposals etc, it was also put on facebook for those who dont use the forum. I can put it in a different section, Mick said it could encourage non members to come along and perhaps join. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 31/12/2016 at 14:43, Loobie Maher said: Mick said it could encourage non members to come along and perhaps join. Maybe, just don't want any of our dirty laundry being washed in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 On 29/12/2016 at 16:40, Loobie Maher said: that the Forum should be open only to members to post for security reasons as well keeping the Forum a happy place without dispute and foul language. Because I fundamentally disagree with this, I would like to propose that a "Delete Account" function is added to the website with a further option to "Delete all content" contributed, posts, uploads etc The "right to be forgotten" may be in the data protection act now and may apply, I don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiney_norman Posted January 3, 2017 Share Posted January 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, mantadoc said: Because I fundamentally disagree with this, I would like to propose that a "Delete Account" function is added to the website with a further option to "Delete all content" contributed, posts, uploads etc The "right to be forgotten" may be in the data protection act now and may apply, I don't know. I'll second that, if someone wants to delete all traces of themselves for whatever reason there should be an option for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 So our dirty washing is being launderd in public, we are having a debate about if we allow any user to post on the forum in a section open to any user, NOT GOOD. This thread needs moving into the commitee news section in the members only area. A notification of the AGM can posted here but as a locked topic to prevent any awkward debates being viewed by non-members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 The only reason not to launder dirty washing in public is embarrassment / shame. What is there to be embarrassed about in frank and open debate? I don't see why we should be embarrassed to let non-club members know there is a potential change in the wind that fundamentally affects them! As you know I have recently been removed as a moderator due to my own request after 6 years of requesting guidance in the role which was not forthcoming and to the best of my knowledge, based on previous progression, probably does not exist. People may also have forgotten that I was invited to be a moderator after diplomatically handling an argument on a thread on here as a normal member. The point is nothing in the proposal to restrict posting to Club Members improves security (anyone can join) or improves control of bad language (how many months had that bad language report been open that was still open when I was un-modded?). What you need is a proper policy/ framework. As I have said before, If people truly believe the club contains info / benefits necessary and unique to keep Mantas on the road then not sharing that info reduces the number of Mantas and hastens the time when there are no Mantas and no club. This flies in the face of the clubs principals. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealExile Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I think the open sections should be exactly that, non-members may come on here in search of parts etc and allowing them to post may encourage them to get involved and join. Being able to post and ask opinions and advice about Manta's for sale before I owned another one certainly encouraged me to join. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Its not my place to try and influence your agm proposal. My opinion, if anyone wants to know, is that you already have a procedure in place to deal with foul language or disruptive forum members. You would ban them and/or delete their comments. At the end of the day its the clubs forum paid for by members subs. So you have total control and can remove people without having to give a reason if you so wish. However by restricting postings to members only, you are removing the input from 99% of other non members (or shall we call them potential members) from the forum where they contribute and learn. A sad day for everyone, and many people would never join on principle because someone is trying to force them to do so. My mantas have been off the road for years and my membership lapsed probably around the same time, but I enjoy keeping up with what's going on and offering advice or parts from almost 30 years of manta ownership. Keep the club alive! Help people with specific membership enquiries (I have seen many left unanswered-including mine) and encourage membership.. but try not to get dragged into petty arguments. Direct people with a serious question to the AGM, then it can be addressed formally and in the correct environment. I wish you all the best and a large turnout at the AGM... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robah Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 People are getting free advice via media like Facebook, so why restrict help from the club on the forum. I like others will try and help any enthusiast in the marquee with enquiries and point them in the right direction (hopefully). I hardly use Facebook but notice a lot of business being drummed up via the unofficial club site, to which the OMOC is losing out on because we keep walls up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymanc Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 it was voted in at the AGM at the buckles pub in Yorkshire if I recall correctly, to have a more members based website as voted by the majority if you want different you should attend the AGM as you can get your point across and a healthy debate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 15 minutes ago, garymanc said: it was voted in at the AGM at the buckles pub in Yorkshire Robah was talking about the item in first post, I believe, which if it had already been discussed would not be up for next AGM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymanc Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, mantadoc said: Robah was talking about the item in first post, I believe, which if it had already been discussed would not be up for next AGM just re read the 1ST post and i should think the forum should be left as the same for Non members as it is at present 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTREA Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 At present the one proposal we have is: that the Forum should be open only to members to post for security reasons as well keeping the Forum a happy place without dispute and foul language. Personally I think to do so would be a very antiquated and backwards way of thinking, and extremely likely before you know it to make the OMOC the next 'BlockBuster Video'. The Fan club Facebook site is killing the forum atm for Content and Activity....and will continue to grow if more restrictions are put in place here. Just as 'Manta Magic' ran its course and basically gave way to the 'Forum' times are a changing again....... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapierdave Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 The Cavalier & Chevette owners club forum is a closed forum hence the reason I came to this forum in 2009 when I bought my Cavalier Sportshatch. Got a taste of what was on offer, joined the club & now have A Manta A, Manta B & Ascona B. If it aint broke don't fix it, leave the forum as it is with an open section to get a "taster" & a members only section to encourage people to join. Facebook is popular even with an old fart like me because its "immediate" but the forum is better for project threads & in depth advice. I too think the magazine has unfortunately had its day hence why hardly anyone submits articles. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 ^^^^ Guys there is no need to say here, though I appreciate I am not the only one what you need to do is VOTE / POSTALVOTE when the time is right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1900SR Posted January 8, 2017 Share Posted January 8, 2017 I don't have a problem with the proposals for the AGM being in this area, however I do think we should have a section within the members area to debate the proposals. One of the problems we have at the moment is with "postal" voting I think. You may see a proposal that you think is a good (or bad) idea and vote accordingly. However, you are not hearing the reasons that other members may have for voting differently. At the AGM itself the proposals are debated and those attending can hear (and make) both sides of the argument. Rather than proposing that only attending members get the vote (which is unfair on those who can't attend) then I think a section where the debate as we've got above can be held by the membership would be a potential answer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 On 06/01/2017 at 11:09, mantadoc said: The only reason not to launder dirty washing in public is embarrassment / shame. What is there to be embarrassed about in frank and open debate? Wholly wrong, this is a proposal for the OMOC AGM, It is to voted upon by PAID UP MEMBERS, It is corrupting the debate to have the issue influanced by non-members. On 08/01/2017 at 12:35, 1900SR said: I don't have a problem with the proposals for the AGM being in this area, however I do think we should have a section within the members area to debate the proposals. We have, it's the commitee news section where this debate MUST be moved to, having non-members debate club issues and influancing the future of club policy is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, MANTAMAN said: Wholly wrong, this is a proposal for the OMOC AGM, It is to voted upon by PAID UP MEMBERS, It is corrupting the debate to have the issue influanced by non-members. We have, it's the commitee news section where this debate MUST be moved to, having non-members debate club issues and influancing the future of club policy is wrong. Once again I disagree on both accounts Nothing dirty about this laundry. Usually if I am embarrassed it means I knew I did something wrong and I see no reason to keep this debate quiet. The only benefit in non-members not knowing would be to get it done without them having an opportunity to register their (non voting) view to paying and non-paying members. I believe this fundamentally affects the clubs public face and non-members, and the general publics, perceptions of it. You would not go to a car show and set up a stand with a 6' fence around so no one can see in, or alternatively not let anyone, except members, set foot on the stand, or let anyone have read only access i.e. read plaques on cars, overhear members conversations but not have their own words or questions answered or input blanked as if not there. The club was not set up to preserve the club, it was set up to preserve the Manta. There are no exclusive parts or information on here, you can build a Manta from a second hand Haynes Manual for £1.99. However, there is a wealth of knowledge and experience in members heads not catalogued or tangible. I believe an approach of "you need the club, but we won't show you why" will maybe get some one to join once but they won't stay based on the site content or if they are tried to be held over a barrel but find the info free elsewhere. I know some believe people won't pay unless they have to. Are those the people you want for members? I believe if you help people with no expectations more are likely to join an open friendly inclusive club because they like the people and want to NOT because they have to because (let's be real) no one really has to. And if some one's Manta is saved and they don't join, well that's one more car in the shrinking pool that may be a future Members car so still upholding the clubs principals. I also appreciate the people that run the club do it for free and contribute time that I myself am not able or willing to commit. However, I have 50% bank rolled group buys to the tune of quite a few £k and provided various things like the 2p trick, how to use a polo motor in a standard manta heater etc that many have benefitted from, so I think I contribute more benefit than I have taken out. Ultimately if the will of the majority is to become exclusive of others rather than inclusive and not help preserve any Manta - club members or not then I will leave because people like to be in groups with common interests and aims and I'll delete the contents of my 4% of this sites posts because I don't share with people that don't share. Edited January 10, 2017 by mantadoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANTAMAN Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 7 hours ago, mantadoc said: Usually if I am embarrassed it means I knew I did something wrong This is WRONG, we are talking about people infront of them, which is down right bad manners. 7 hours ago, mantadoc said: The only benefit in non-members not knowing would be to get it done without them having an opportunity to register their (non voting) view to paying and non-paying members. You really do fall short of grasping what a club is, To influance the direction of a club you have to be a member of it, ANY CLUB, not just a the OMOC. I do have opinions on this issue but i will not debate them here, hence i have started a thread in the appropiate section, here is the link - AGM 2017 proposals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymanc Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 16 minutes ago, MANTAMAN said: I do have opinions on this issue but i will not debate them here, hence i have started a thread in the appropiate section, here is the link - AGM 2017 proposals can't seem to reply on that , so no debate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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