parkesie Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 over the last few days ive been busy fitting injection to my sports hatch, ive now reached the point where im checking the electrics work. So far everythings working bar the fuel pump. Im not getting a live feed to it from the relay. Does anyone know what live feeds should be on at the relay to switch it? Fingers crossed its a wire ive missed somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manta400john Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Try googling 7-pin tachometric relay.......... it's friday and I've had a few so the heid's no workin' too good............................................................................ ................................................................................ . ........................................................ J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Picture speaks a thousand words so here goes, remember that I'm looking at the plug from opposite ends but once you're orientated it will help. Car loom plug Injection harness plug Basically if you have an injection loom try get the plug from the injection loom for factory look if possible, then all you have to do is wire that in and they magically only fit one way round. Not done this since a few years before '99 so bear with me. IF I remember rightly the Black with Red trace sw-rt on the diagrams, the green and the black will all be in the loom over the heater for you to cut into. As for the black ignition live, connect it to the one to the coil NOT a separate one, for the fuel pump run a separate new wire and fuse as apprpriate. When fitting a jetronic 3.0 to check it was good me and a mate ran it up sitting on a stump at the side of his GTE. We connected the injection loom to his car, connected his fuel system with long pipes. We used the ignition pack bolted to his engine and connected a separate live to the coil pack for convenience (length of wires) we got spark but didn't run. I realised I couldn't hear the injectors. We then connected the coil pack to the car wiring and it ran. I think the injection picks up a pulse, don't know if from black or green. Maybe the black doesn't make a diff, never had cause to examine it further, would make sense to be just the coil for trigger so maybe its just a be aware point if you have problems. In a GTE loom although if you strip the wires back in the car loom it looks like they are separate black wires they are joined inside the loom a couple of inches interior side of the car loom grommit. Make sense? Confused? lol Oh yeah, no warranty implied or given, if your car melts unlucky. Basically if everything looks right and the injection relay is the only problem you have, cars will usually run with a faulty injection relay as long as it is plugged in as long as you furnish power to the pump by some other means. So after checking out the blue for a live while cranking or running as above go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Think ive done everything above. Is the Black with Red trace a perm live or just live when cranking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Off the top of my head cranking. Fed from one of the spade terminals on the starter motor. Does your ignition provide a spark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 I have spark not tried starting it yet im just double checking all my wiring before i do Should the fuel pump kick in when you switch the ignition on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Most Mantas will buzz the pump for a couplw of seconds when the ignition is flicked. That's it though if not cranking or running. IS the AFM connected up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Top banana looks like i have everythings spot on . Fingers crossed it will run tomorrow will run the pump for a min on its own just to get fuel into the lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Yours buzzes the pump then? Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 Not got the pump wire up yet but the feed goes live for a few seconds not checked it on cranking yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 This mornings progress: She started she stopped Started idled for 30sec stopped Started idled press throtle stopped. Starting to think this car really dosnt like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Add temp feed to pump to test if injection relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Off the top of my head I think the relay connections go something like this: 30 - permanent live, thick red cable. 87 - feed to fuel pump, thick white or blue 87b - feed to injectors, throttle switch etc, thick white or blue 15 - switch live from ignition switch for relay coil - thin black 1 - signal from ignition hall sensors, thin green 50 - switch live from ignition for relay and thermo time switch, cold start valve etc, thin red black 31 - earth for relay coil, thin brown. Wire colours may vary on different cars .Also I might have the feeds the wrong way around. Some other manta nutter will probably correct me. In an emergency or for testing purposes. If you suspect the relay then bridge terminals 30, 87 and 87b together. The pump should run (all the time!!!!) and you should have power to the injectors. The car should also start. You can drive like this but I wouldn't recommend it for too long. JUST REMEMBER TERMINAL 30 IS A PERMENANT LIVE!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 so far looks like either my relay and or ecu could be pump if its not them im stumped. New engine time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Would you like to run through the wiring you have done to install the fuel injected engine? Did your car have a rev counter to start with or not? You should have used: Black from ignition switch to coil Red & Black from ignition switch to starter motor solinoid. Green attaches to connection from the coil to rev counter. A feed, standard colour is blue, to the fuel pump. A thick red that attaches to the starter. An earth wire that attaches to the inlet manifold. That is it. If the relay doesn't get a feed back from the rev counter, and red & black cable it will turn over and start but die straight away. If your wiring is ok the try what i mentioned about connecting the three connectors together. If it starts and runs now it is your relay. 30 - permanent live, thick red cable. 87 - feed to fuel pump, thick white or blue 87b - feed to injectors, throttle switch etc, thick white or blue Did you have the engine running before the conversion in the donner car? Is your static timing right? Do you have the correct ECU? Did you damage the fuel injection harness during installation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 At the relay i have Red perm live black switched live red black switched on cranking green revcounter its getting a signal Brown earth to manifold turn ingition on to cranking relay clicks but no power goes to 87 or 87b. Ive bridged thes 2 conections and the car still only starts and runs for a few seconds pumps. Im curently thinking duff relay and or ecu. Will try another set this afternoon. The engine was runining before the conversion but with a misfire. Checked the static timing usint the mark on the flywheel instead of the pulley found it to be a tooth out. Ive reset it to the marks checked re checked and checked again. Cheers for all the help guys i will get this thing running even if i have to throw spanners at it. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 If it was mine I would keep cranking and damage the starter and ring gear to see if it keeps running as long as you keep cranking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 tried that it didnt keep runing it would die and start again after a few seconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Terminal 30 is the permenant live, if you do not link the three out that i have mentioned you will not be proving anything. Also have you had this engine running before you swapped it into your cav? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Ive tried linkin 30 87 87b pump runs engine starts then stops as before. The engine was runing before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Did you try the separate power supply to the pump? would answer if it is relay / fuelling prob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 aye tried that made no difference to the runing and stoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Is the black connected to the ignition live connected directly to the black wire that feeds the coil pack? And have you taken account of the fact that if your car had points that black only has power when cranking and the rest of the time it is powered by the resistance wire, usually translucent yellow? Only applies if you didn't originally have electronic ignition on a 12V feed of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkesie Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 Aye i removed the balast wire and ran a black from the loom to the coil and the relay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantadoc Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Earth loop bolted to plenum? Ring terminal to feed EFI loom under the right terminal nut on the starter? The AFM on some jectronic seems to have a switch in to cut the pump if the flap doesn't move. Usually turning the ignition lights on pulses pump two seconds then stops so sounds mostly right. Fuel pressure feed to T on fuel rail and return from pressure regulator to tank? ECU earthed? Senders on therm housing right way around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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